Hey Des

[Vince Ventura]

This is one sick role we've got here, don't ya think?

Sam just said they don't even know we're out here, so I can't think of any reason the Spies would want to be misleading with their ability. This basically means, that as far as I can tell, we'll learn the identity of one Citizen every time they use this ability, unless they hit either you or me.

Now before we start doing jumping jacks, I think it's very very very very important that we keep hush hush about this. Even if we know that someone is a Citizen, there is not any reason for us to indicate or even HINT at our knowledge of such. I've played with some folks in the past who have given their role info to Citizens and that has led to their demise. Cits may want the Cits to win, but they do not always know when to keep quiet.

There are a few folks who I would not mind letting in on this when the time comes, but let's agree that I won't tell anyone anything unless you agree to it, and vice versa. This'll keep us both on board with what's going on.

The other huge advantage we have is that there are two of us. If one of us dies, the other can start planning on how to get the info they've accumulated out for the public to see. In the past, folks have had to come up with some clever tricks for ensuring the preservation of their findings, yet we have the solution to that problem bundled up in a nice package for us already.

I think we may very well be the key role in this game, unless the Spies have some other wickedly sick things going on that we don't know about yet.

Whatcha think about all this?

[Desmond]

Everything you just said I was thinking right when Sam told us about our role. Yes we have the potential to find out a Citizen after every round unless they pick the same people a few times and also what you said. This is great, remember how happy I was yesterday? Times that by 1000 baby! It is good to know that there will be a lot more people that we may be able to trust and talk to if needed.

I agree about not telling anyone, someone may be dumb enough to reveal something. I agree that we should also post important and leading convos in here that we have with other players to help keep us informed. (maybe even highlighting the most important parts)

I do not trust anyone enough to say or do anything so don't worry about me making any n00bish moves in this game, I am a great follwer and I will pretty much listen to whatever you say. (Just don't get a big head about it, etc.)

I still do not understand how being two of us will exactly help? Are you allowed to communicate after you are killed or imprisoned, etc? Please try to explain a little better, cause I will admit I am a smart dude and I have gotten most of this so far, so don't think I am dumb.

Other than that I am very excited about our role and I think we play a huge part, we just have to be careful and stay alive and gain others trust. Goodluck and I look forward to having many conversations with you.

-Dez

[Vince Ventura]

Hey, don't worry, I'll try not to be a jackass. If I do step out of line, feel free to smack me with a piece of salmon or something.

The thing I was saying about how two of us is beneficial has to do with our information getting out there after we die. Imagine you have the same role you do right now, but that you were not buddied with me. You must decide how and when to reveal what you've learned with your role so that you are not suddenly eliminated and all the Citizens you find are unknown to the remaining players.

However, because there are two of us, it will take two hits for that same thing to happen to us. Once either you or I are eliminated, the remaining one will still be around to reveal any findings. It basically extends the amount of time we will be able to put this role to use without exposing ourselves.

Cheers!

-V

[Desmond]

Oh ok thank you for clarifying for me, I understand now!

[Vince Ventura]

[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:24 PM] sorintheseeker: I would suggest that you look at individual actions rather than an assumed mass group which may or may not exist
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:28 PM] spies5Cookie: no more spy teams.
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:29 PM] spies5Cookie: kthx.
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:37 PM] spies5Cookie: Ooh
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:42 PM] spies5Cookie: I bet they dont know who eachother is!
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:42 PM] sorintheseeker: that's always good advice to start off
[Thursday, 03-13-2008, 11:01:47 PM] spies5Cy: ruh roh


FUCK

This might change things, Des.

[Desmond]

Oh wow I never fully understood that, but now it is a shocker! This game is going to make us fall on our asses!

[Vince Ventura]

Well nothing's definite yet... But that sounded to me like perhaps the Spies don't know who eachother are...

If that's the case, then our detective role just reduced in effectivity significantly. Perhaps things will become clearer/change further down the line.

[Vince Ventura]

People are starting to wonder where you've been. Might want to try chiming in at spies5chat and on the board a bit, lettem know you've been busy. I'll try to sway them away from you in the mean time.

[Vince Ventura]

[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:43:56 PM] spies5Angus: Desmond's little sister is on his account
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:44:10 PM] spies5Angus: his real life sister
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:47:36 PM] spies5Vince: are you serious?
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:47:39 PM] spies5Vince: no fucking wonder
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:47:56 PM] spies5Vince: the past few days he has been acting weird
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:48:01 PM] spies5Angus: ha
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:48:08 PM] spies5Angus: saying bye a lot
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:48:24 PM] spies5Vince: well see the first few days he was enthusiastic
[Saturday, 03-15-2008, 12:48:30 PM] spies5Vince: now i just get a lot of "oh" "idk"

[Vince Ventura]

(12:45:52 PM) spies5Vince: If I wind up dead, tonight, Angus...
(12:45:54 PM) spies5Vince: *cracks his knuckles*
(12:46:00 PM) spies5Angus: yawn.
(12:46:33 PM) spies5Angus: I doubt you will. Sadly it's nothing I have any control over.
(12:46:49 PM) spies5Vince: hehe
(12:46:54 PM) spies5Vince: _I_ sure hope not
(12:46:59 PM) spies5Angus: I think the opposite is a more problematic consideration.
(12:47:08 PM) spies5Angus: Angus ending up dead.
(12:47:19 PM) spies5Angus: but thanks for caring.
(12:47:20 PM) spies5Angus: asshole.
(12:47:23 PM) spies5Vince: Right, well, if you're a Cit, I think that's very likely unfortunately
(12:47:32 PM) spies5Vince: And I do care
(12:47:44 PM) spies5Vince: I've told you so before
(12:47:54 PM) spies5Angus: shrug. we shall see.
(12:48:11 PM) spies5Angus: Im not seeing much of a save Desmond push from you.
(12:48:16 PM) spies5Angus: or any sign of Desmond.
(12:48:24 PM) spies5Angus: and I'm still not convinced you both arent spies.
(12:48:26 PM) spies5Vince: That's what I want to talk to you about
(12:48:47 PM) spies5Angus: sophia and I have already been talking about the four teams of two
(12:48:59 PM) spies5Angus: so you and Desmond as spy buddies makes sense.
(12:49:20 PM) spies5Vince: If that winds up being the game setup, then I don't blame you for thinking along those lines.
(12:49:32 PM) spies5Vince: But that's not what we've been told yet.
(12:49:37 PM) spies5Vince: We'll likely be told by this exile
(12:49:46 PM) spies5Angus: yup
(12:50:05 PM) spies5Vince: And why, Angus, would I tell you this, when I know that Desmond's not only in danger
(12:50:15 PM) spies5Vince: but that his death would result in my ultimate demise?
(12:50:26 PM) spies5Vince: I'm no rookie
(12:50:51 PM) spies5Angus: I dont have it all sorted yet. It could be timing. You slipped your post count issue. then you kill me tonight.
(12:50:58 PM) spies5Angus: and keep me shut up until then.
(12:51:18 PM) spies5Vince: Hold on, I need to show you something first
(12:52:05 PM) spies5Angus: kk
(12:53:06 PM) spies5Vince: Imprisonment
(12:53:18 PM) spies5Vince: It's typically decided well before the day it is released
(12:53:21 PM) spies5Vince: it's deadlined
(12:53:27 PM) spies5Vince: at least in past games
(12:53:33 PM) spies5Vince: therefore whoever's going tonight has already been decided
(12:53:43 PM) spies5Vince: at least more than likely
(12:53:52 PM) spies5Angus: and you would know if that was me already.
(12:53:59 PM) spies5Vince: if I was a spy I would
(12:54:00 PM) spies5Angus: non-persuasive. :-)
(12:54:07 PM) spies5Vince: no, that's not what I'm trying to say
(12:54:43 PM) spies5Vince: I'm weighing the chance you're going to tell someone about Desmond and myself being partnered on the chance you feel you're going to be imprisoned
(12:55:14 PM) spies5Angus: well I told you I wouldnt and my problem is that my hands are sort of tied.
(12:55:21 PM) spies5Vince: ?
(12:55:31 PM) spies5Angus: Ive already gotten a finger wag over paige
(12:55:45 PM) spies5Angus: if I come out with a mason claim on you guys
(12:55:54 PM) spies5Angus: and you are indeed masons
(12:55:57 PM) spies5Angus: yuck
(12:56:13 PM) spies5Angus: Frankly I'd be a lot happier being oblivious
(12:56:15 PM) spies5Vince: Right, but you don't play for self preservation
(12:56:18 PM) spies5Angus: and who would I tell?
(12:56:20 PM) spies5Vince: You have shown no indication of that
(12:56:31 PM) spies5Angus: who do I trust?
(12:56:46 PM) spies5Vince: If you feel I'm more likely to be lying, you'd tell everyone
(12:57:07 PM) spies5Angus: I dont have enough evidence to make that determination yet.
(12:57:46 PM) spies5Angus: anyway - you arent helping Desmond and he certainly isnt helping himself. So maybe all will be revealed at exile.
(12:58:25 PM) spies5Vince: I can't help him unless I've an alternative. And that's what I need your help on
(12:58:40 PM) spies5Angus: ok. splain.
(12:59:01 PM) spies5Vince: Basically, if not Desmond, then who? And how?
(12:59:08 PM) spies5Vince: We've a few sketchy looking people
(12:59:28 PM) spies5Angus: I dunno. I still half want it to be Desmond.
(12:59:42 PM) spies5Angus: and past that... I have a large long list of minor teeny suspects.
(12:59:53 PM) spies5Angus: and no single person standing out.
(1:00:32 PM) spies5Vince: ugh
(1:00:43 PM) spies5Vince: Things got quiet after the exile,
(1:00:53 PM) spies5Angus: is there anyone else you think is very likely town in this game?
(1:00:55 PM) spies5Vince: The people who made the worst of the moves crept into a hole
(1:00:58 PM) spies5Vince: Yes
(1:00:59 PM) spies5Angus: you said you are experience.
(1:01:03 PM) spies5Angus: experienced.
(1:01:12 PM) spies5Vince: I'm not saying I'm a pro, but I'm not a rookie
(1:01:15 PM) spies5Angus: I know
(1:01:21 PM) spies5Angus: who else do you tend to trust a lot?
(1:02:15 PM) spies5Vince: I trust none of what I hear, and only half of what I see, but people who've given me a decent impression of themselves are the ones who don't seem to be too concerned with keeping themselves safe, and using decent logical approaches towards things
(1:02:21 PM) spies5Vince: Looking at the player list...
(1:02:52 PM) spies5Vince: Xavoer. Cy. Evoe. Pttp
(1:02:55 PM) spies5Vince: Otto*
(1:02:59 PM) spies5Vince: Ok let me try that again
(1:03:02 PM) spies5Vince: Xavier, Cy, Evie, Otto
(1:03:24 PM) spies5Angus: the thing is I feel at least a desire to have a trusted third party know about your mason deal in case I go tonight because you might be a spy.
(1:03:35 PM) spies5Vince: Right
(1:03:57 PM) spies5Vince: Would you mind if I selected that person?
(1:04:09 PM) spies5Angus: I havent decided if we should do it yet or not.
(1:04:16 PM) spies5Angus: we'd have to select it together.
(1:04:20 PM) spies5Angus: veto power.
(1:04:27 PM) spies5Angus: best we could do.
(1:04:27 PM) spies5Vince: Sounds fine
(1:04:42 PM) spies5Vince: Though I'd rather not
(1:04:47 PM) spies5Angus: yeah. I understand.
(1:05:12 PM) spies5Angus: You've put me in a pickle, Vincent.
(1:05:37 PM) spies5Angus: I think the best call is probably Sophia if we did it.
(1:05:40 PM) spies5Vince: it was YOUR post count idea
(1:05:59 PM) spies5Angus: ha. I just wanted to figure out who was actually lurking
(1:06:44 PM) spies5Angus: AND I was oblivious to the post count thing ;-)
(1:06:54 PM) spies5Vince: Yeah, I wish I could read your cryptic mind
(1:07:11 PM) spies5Angus: the word you're avoiding is "stupid" :-D
(1:07:18 PM) spies5Vince: You are no fool
(1:07:24 PM) spies5Angus: no. Im not.
(1:07:27 PM) spies5Angus: Im a very bright guy.
(1:07:35 PM) spies5Angus: but I do miss stuff. same as everyone does.
(1:07:47 PM) spies5Angus: I cant promise it wouldnt have come to me later.
(1:08:24 PM) spies5Vince: well you brought up the count difference twice
(1:08:29 PM) spies5Vince: had you only mentioned it once i might've let it go
(1:08:40 PM) spies5Angus: /nod. I just figured it was a typo
(1:08:49 PM) spies5Angus: we'd had so many issues with the fucking thing already too
(1:09:36 PM) spies5Angus: I have to shower and get some food.
(1:09:39 PM) spies5Angus: back in a bit.
(1:10:06 PM) spies5Vince: alright
(1:23:03 PM) spies5Angus: back for a bit. showered but unhungry yet
(1:24:11 PM) spies5Vince: welcome back
(1:24:11 PM) *** Auto-response from spies5Angus: I am away from my computer right now.
(1:24:35 PM) spies5Angus: danka
(1:24:55 PM) spies5Angus: any more thoughts on how to get us out of our mexican standoff conundrum?
(1:25:25 PM) spies5Vince: Well not any new ones, no
(1:25:31 PM) spies5Angus: lol
(1:25:35 PM) spies5Vince: I spent the last 5 minutes answering IMs and posting this conversation
(1:25:52 PM) spies5Angus: you posted it to Burg or confessional?
(1:25:59 PM) spies5Vince: confessional lol
(1:26:04 PM) spies5Vince: i'm not feeling suicidal yet
(1:26:09 PM) spies5Angus: heh
(1:26:18 PM) spies5Angus: you need to count desmond votes
(1:26:25 PM) spies5Angus: and decide if you should claim.
(1:26:28 PM) spies5Vince: I think the poll tonight will help determine that
(1:26:36 PM) spies5Vince: I can't claim
(1:26:38 PM) spies5Angus: preferably before the imprisonment.
(1:26:39 PM) spies5Vince: Not just to save him, no
(1:26:57 PM) spies5Angus: well that's the only use of mason buddies :-D
(1:27:07 PM) spies5Vince: You're fishing, sucka
(1:27:18 PM) spies5Angus: quite clearly not.
(1:27:31 PM) spies5Vince: Just trust me that it's not worth me claiming just to save him
(1:27:35 PM) spies5Angus: ok.
(1:27:35 PM) spies5Vince: although losing him will hurt. a lot.
(1:27:46 PM) spies5Angus: well you have to work it out.
(1:27:55 PM) spies5Vince: If the mofo would get online that would really help
(1:28:01 PM) spies5Angus: seriously.
(1:28:06 PM) spies5Angus: you have a dead partner, really
(1:28:16 PM) spies5Angus: what would you do if you were in my shoes?
(1:28:44 PM) spies5Vince: I'm not surprised nor suspicious of your tendency to be precautious. I was in a similar situation once before.

What would I do...
(1:29:11 PM) spies5Vince: I'd weigh the chance I'm lying VS the chance I'm not
(1:29:21 PM) spies5Vince: on top of the chance of you going tonight VS the chance you're not going.
(1:29:40 PM) spies5Vince: on top of the chance of whether who you tell this about is a spy VS whether they're not
(1:29:47 PM) spies5Vince: those are the three things you need to consider.
(1:30:10 PM) spies5Angus: I know the things I need to consider ;-)
(1:30:19 PM) spies5Vince: If I am a spy, you think I would likely be a duo
(1:30:20 PM) spies5Angus: I want you to tell me the decision you would come to.
(1:30:31 PM) spies5Vince: with that mindset, i would have a 1/4 chance of controlling your death
(1:30:39 PM) spies5Vince: (for tonight)
(1:30:49 PM) spies5Vince: Unless you can think of how it would be increased?
(1:31:15 PM) spies5Vince: if you felt you were likely to die
(1:31:27 PM) spies5Vince: i wouldn't blame you for contemplating filling someone else in on this
(1:31:42 PM) spies5Vince: but from my PoV that is the worst move
(1:32:56 PM) spies5Angus: well - I could go tonight but I dont think the chances are all that overwhelming.
(1:33:12 PM) spies5Angus: The Paige situation has shown that I can be a loose cannon.
(1:33:44 PM) spies5Angus: plus the longer Im alive. the better chance of a mislynch happening.
(1:33:48 PM) spies5Angus: but I AM prominent
(1:33:50 PM) spies5Angus: so I cant rule it out.
(1:34:04 PM) spies5Angus: when Im "mafia" though, I usually just kill in the corners
(1:34:10 PM) spies5Angus: try to take out lurking power roles.
(1:34:56 PM) spies5Angus: rather than loud vanillas
(1:35:02 PM) spies5Angus: but that's all WIFOM
(1:35:25 PM) spies5Angus: So that's my imprisonment analysis
(1:35:48 PM) spies5Angus: as for you lying - I dunno. I think the chances are high.
(1:35:57 PM) spies5Vince: Yesterday you indicated the opposite
(1:36:13 PM) spies5Angus: the opposite of which.
(1:36:16 PM) spies5Angus: you lying?
(1:36:21 PM) spies5Vince: You said you believed me at one point
(1:36:26 PM) spies5Vince: Now you seem to be having second thoughts.
(1:36:44 PM) spies5Angus: here's a secret about Angus. in any game we ever play together. ever. I am NOT NOT NOT consistent.
(1:36:47 PM) spies5Angus: quite the opposite.
(1:36:53 PM) spies5Angus: I keep thinking. all the time.
(1:37:03 PM) spies5Angus: and am not remotely afraid to change my mind.
(1:37:07 PM) spies5Angus: repeatedly.
(1:37:11 PM) spies5Angus: this is a hunting game.
(1:37:21 PM) spies5Angus: I hate confirmation bias.
(1:37:26 PM) spies5Angus: if I have a reason to lock on I will.
(1:37:42 PM) spies5Angus: Now: your claim seems fairly believable. But so what?
(1:38:16 PM) spies5Angus: I already have a theory about spy pairs and a pair comes up.
(1:38:28 PM) spies5Angus: I cant just ignore that.
(1:38:29 PM) spies5Vince: Well I can't really relieve your disbelief
(1:38:34 PM) spies5Vince: Beyond telling you to kill Desmond
(1:38:43 PM) spies5Angus: which would be anti-town
(1:38:46 PM) spies5Vince: And obviously regardless of my alignment I do not want that
(1:38:52 PM) spies5Angus: yup
(1:39:17 PM) spies5Vince: What if Paige did wind up being the roleblocker?
(1:40:05 PM) spies5Angus: dunno. You tell me.
(1:41:14 PM) spies5Vince: I already know I'm a Cit
(1:41:32 PM) spies5Vince: I told you my role hints at the existence of one
(1:41:37 PM) spies5Angus: /nod
(1:41:59 PM) spies5Angus: I dont think ol' Des will go... I dunno.
(1:42:20 PM) spies5Angus: Im not only sure who to vote for, I'm highly unsure of who WILL be voted for.
(1:43:57 PM) spies5Vince: This poll will help determine that
(1:44:08 PM) spies5Angus: put the poll happens monday.
(1:44:11 PM) spies5Angus: but
(1:45:04 PM) spies5Vince: True
(1:45:23 PM) spies5Vince: But you'd be surprised what can happen in 24 hours
(1:45:54 PM) spies5Angus: oh I know. But it doesnt help me decide what to do about you if I'm friggin' dead :-D
(1:46:14 PM) spies5Angus: maybe I'll out you with my last words.
(1:46:30 PM) spies5Angus: thereby giving you a good reason to keep me alive.
(1:46:36 PM) spies5Vince: Like I said Angus
(1:46:36 PM) spies5Angus: until we can sort this out
(1:46:43 PM) spies5Vince: If you're imprisoned, it's a done deal at this point
(1:46:53 PM) spies5Angus: you tell me that. I dont know that to be true. sorry.
(1:47:02 PM) spies5Vince: Want me to go get you examples from spies 4?
(1:47:03 PM) spies5Vince:
(1:47:05 PM) spies5Angus: and really, unless you ARE a spy. Neither do you.
(1:47:11 PM) spies5Vince: not with 100% certainty
(1:47:15 PM) spies5Vince: but I know how it has worked in the past
(1:47:25 PM) spies5Vince: the deadline typically is well before(i think)
(1:47:43 PM) spies5Vince: but here, this is what you CAN do
(1:47:47 PM) spies5Vince: we decide on one person
(1:47:57 PM) spies5Vince: if you are imprisoned, you tell them right after your death is announced
(1:48:00 PM) spies5Vince: Sound fair?
(1:48:14 PM) spies5Vince: so if you die, you get what you wanted anyway
(1:48:20 PM) spies5Vince: and i have no out card as a spy
(1:48:47 PM) spies5Angus: good idea maybe. phone.
(1:52:12 PM) spies5Vince: k
(1:52:20 PM) spies5Vince: (sorry getting spammed)
(1:52:31 PM) spies5Angus: np. im on phone
(1:56:02 PM) spies5Angus: I'm thinking Sophia, Beatrix, Cy, Otto.
(1:56:37 PM) spies5Vince: none of them do I suspect with any greatness
(1:56:53 PM) spies5Angus: k. I'll tell one of them.
(1:57:00 PM) spies5Vince: Whoa whoa whoa
(1:57:06 PM) spies5Vince: Only if you're imprisoned, or now?
(1:57:11 PM) spies5Angus: imprisoned.
(1:57:21 PM) spies5Angus: immediately if it looks like I might be imprisoned actually.
(1:57:29 PM) spies5Angus: as in my face keeps showing up.
(1:57:37 PM) spies5Angus: closer and closer to the block
(1:57:40 PM) spies5Vince: Please explain everything to them if it happens
(1:57:48 PM) spies5Angus: I will.
(1:58:01 PM) spies5Angus: and I will save it for the last minute before imprisonment
(1:58:06 PM) spies5Angus: and will cut and paste it.
(1:58:21 PM) spies5Angus: thats the only way I can think to do it that isnt cheating.
(1:58:29 PM) spies5Angus: possibly cheating.
(1:58:32 PM) spies5Vince: maybe
(1:58:41 PM) spies5Vince: you might want to ask sam, but people have done similar in the past without being berated
(1:58:41 PM) spies5Angus: Im not sure it's sportsmanlike to yell your suspicions after your death
(1:58:52 PM) spies5Angus: ok. I'll check with him.
(1:59:03 PM) spies5Angus: because this does present a very elegant solution.
(1:59:15 PM) spies5Angus: you're a smart cat, Vincenzo
(1:59:23 PM) spies5Vince: Not as smart as you
(1:59:43 PM) spies5Angus: hah. you are too kind and a flatterer, sir :-)
(1:59:53 PM) spies5Vince: could we also do this...
(2:00:05 PM) spies5Vince: could you tell me who it is, and give them instructions to do the same as you are now, should they be imprisoned?
(2:00:12 PM) spies5Vince: it gives me a means of communication while preserving the information
(2:00:46 PM) spies5Vince: also tell them that if they wind up dead mysteriously, to tell the next person in line that i should be exiled
(2:00:53 PM) spies5Vince: at that point coincidence should be ruled out imo
(2:01:05 PM) spies5Angus: I concure.
(2:01:07 PM) spies5Angus: concur.
(2:01:20 PM) spies5Angus: Im very happy now.
(2:01:42 PM) spies5Angus: cant believe we worked out a totally doesnt suck strategy for dealing with this.
(2:01:44 PM) spies5Angus: Go team!
(2:02:01 PM) spies5Vince: If you're a spy i'm gonna keel you
(2:02:12 PM) spies5Angus: I'm really really not.
(2:02:29 PM) spies5Angus: Im not the one with the sketchy mason buddy ;-)
(2:02:37 PM) spies5Vince: hah
(2:02:46 PM) spies5Vince: I thought he'd be good
(2:02:53 PM) spies5Angus: he may still be.
(2:02:54 PM) spies5Vince: I can kinda sorta prove further that we are actually
(2:03:09 PM) spies5Angus: he just might be away for the weekend.
(2:03:20 PM) spies5Angus: the time pressures of this game are indeed ridiculous.
(2:03:33 PM) spies5Vince: Yeah it can really get to you
(2:03:37 PM) spies5Vince: some have been driven insane
(2:03:51 PM) spies5Angus: well I just mean that for some of these "inactives" it's been like, what, 5 days or something?
(2:03:53 PM) spies5Angus: a week?
(2:04:03 PM) spies5Angus: including weekend time
(2:04:20 PM) spies5Vince: The worst of them, yeah
(2:04:39 PM) spies5Angus: Samantha hasnt said a word since the Caela lynch
(2:04:42 PM) spies5Angus: but it's the weekend
(2:04:48 PM) spies5Angus: maybe she's just not at her computer.
(2:04:59 PM) spies5Angus: How do we call Desmond inactive.
(2:05:13 PM) spies5Angus: but he is highly suspicious. He shows up for votes and otherwise skulks.
(2:05:22 PM) spies5Angus: so have a word with that boy.
(2:05:30 PM) spies5Vince: I've been trying
(2:05:39 PM) spies5Angus: but he's never online. I know.
(2:05:39 PM) spies5Vince: If I had his phone number I would not leave it unrung
(2:05:44 PM) spies5Angus: lol. I have no doubt.
(2:06:32 PM) spies5Vince: But yeah definitely ask Sam about the post imprisonment thing
(2:06:45 PM) spies5Vince: I don't want to step outside of the boundary lines anymore
(2:06:49 PM) spies5Vince: but folks have done it in the past
(2:07:29 PM) spies5Angus: shall do.
(2:09:36 PM) spies5Vince: Likewise I've left a post for Desmond in case I die
(2:09:43 PM) spies5Vince: tonight anyway
(2:09:47 PM) spies5Angus: cool.
(2:10:21 PM) spies5Angus: I doubt you'll be dead. But it's possible.
(2:10:33 PM) spies5Angus: if not me it'll likely be someone else from that list I posted.
(2:10:38 PM) spies5Angus: someone most people trust.
(2:10:46 PM) spies5Angus: or it'll be a quiet one.
(2:10:52 PM) spies5Angus: that will leave no trail.
(2:11:25 PM) spies5Angus: you'd know better than me how the early imprisonments go.
(2:11:48 PM) spies5Vince: It's hard to recall since typically the early players, even if they're vocal...
(2:11:53 PM) spies5Vince: you kind of forget about them as the game progresses
(2:12:18 PM) spies5Vince: so when i think back to a game and think about the first or second imprisonment target, i go, "who are they?"
(2:12:19 PM) spies5Angus: sob! I'll be forgotten?! :-(
(2:12:26 PM) spies5Vince: not to me you won't
(2:12:29 PM) spies5Angus: hehe
(2:13:35 PM) spies5Vince: i couldn't forget about angus kahn
(2:13:43 PM) spies5Angus: khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!
(2:13:46 PM) spies5Vince: old man with... purple font?
(2:13:52 PM) spies5Vince: khan&
(2:13:55 PM) spies5Vince: khan*
(2:14:13 PM) spies5Vince: Angus Con Artist
(2:15:20 PM) spies5Angus: now it doesnt work becuase its too leaps
(2:15:28 PM) spies5Angus: two
(2:15:41 PM) spies5Vince: A guy can try
(2:15:47 PM) spies5Angus: Genghis Khan to Angus Khan to Genghis Con artist
(2:15:52 PM) spies5Vince: yeah

[Vince Ventura]

I dunno if you're still alive or not, Desmond(I've not seen you in three days), but I need to tell you that Angus knows about us. He knows we're a pair, and that we're confirmed of each other's alignment. However, he does not know much about what we do. The thing is that if I wind up dead tonight, you need to make going after him a priority.

Possible ways to prove you are my mason partner :

1) Approach Marshall and let him know he was roleblocked.
2) Show people the identical hints we dropped about childhood, pies, and that such.
3) Show people how I defended you in your government file.

Only do this if I am dead and if Angus outs your role.[/color]

[Desmond]

Spies5angus (9:32:02 PM): and more importantly, you need to post some content!
spies5Desmond (9:32:09 PM): Content?
Spies5angus (9:32:31 PM): yeah. you havent said much the whole game so you are on the short list to be exiled.
spies5Desmond (9:32:47 PM): NO!
spies5Desmond (9:32:49 PM): Oh gof
Spies5angus (9:32:49 PM): substantive content on who you suspect and why you voted Caela and what our next move should be.
spies5Desmond (9:32:51 PM): god*
spies5Desmond (9:32:59 PM): Damn this game moves fast
Spies5angus (9:33:00 PM): you need to start playing the game.
Spies5angus (9:33:01 PM): very
Spies5angus (9:33:21 PM): you have your own "let's kick him out" thread alreayd
spies5Desmond (9:33:38 PM): Oh shi-
spies5Desmond (9:33:42 PM): I was at my dads all weekend
Spies5angus (9:34:01 PM): well - read the burg and do a big post, I would suggest.
Spies5angus (9:34:11 PM): with opinions and accusations in it.
Spies5angus (9:34:12 PM): ASAP
spies5Desmond (9:35:20 PM): Thank you Angus I am grateful

[Desmond]

spies5Desmond (10:07:47 PM): Oh Shi- I have your vote
spies5Luke (10:07:58 PM): just an FoS
spies5Luke (10:08:04 PM): you may have my vote
spies5Desmond (10:08:19 PM): I love talking to you
spies5Luke (10:08:26 PM): um, ok
spies5Desmond (10:08:38 PM): Your background and pic makes me think of the Australian Outback
spies5Luke (10:08:48 PM): lol
spies5Desmond (10:09:09 PM): You're the new Croc Hunter mate
spies5Luke (10:13:07 PM): and you're the new spy!
spies5Luke (10:13:11 PM): =]
spies5Desmond (10:13:23 PM): I am a Spy?
spies5Desmond (10:13:26 PM): Damn!
spies5Desmond (10:14:01 PM): sam must have spelt spy pretty wrong cause it looked more like c-i-t-i-z-e-n
spies5Luke (10:14:37 PM): Is that all you're going to refute my statement with?
spies5Luke (10:14:43 PM): "sam said so"?
spies5Desmond (10:15:24 PM): lol Sam is the man in charge
spies5Desmond (10:15:30 PM):
spies5Luke (10:15:42 PM): but I want you to tell me how you couldn't be a spy
spies5Luke (10:15:51 PM): not how sam told you you're not.
spies5Desmond (10:16:05 PM): If I told you I would be dead ASAP
spies5Luke (10:16:18 PM): yeah.
spies5Luke (10:16:25 PM): so tell me how you're not a spy
spies5Luke (10:16:43 PM): without telling me what sam said
spies5Desmond (10:16:57 PM): But you may tell everyone thus ruining my game
spies5Luke (10:17:26 PM): if you told me a legitamate reason why you're not a spy, then how could that ruin your game?
spies5Luke (10:17:49 PM): the only thing that would ruin your game is if you COULDN'T tell me how you're not a spy
spies5Luke (10:17:55 PM): which is what you're doing now.
spies5Desmond (10:18:24 PM): I am not a Spy because you have to trust me, I have no reason to lie to you
spies5Luke (10:19:12 PM): ...
spies5Luke (10:19:18 PM): that would be ideal
spies5Luke (10:19:25 PM): but I don't just "trust you"
spies5Luke (10:19:38 PM): thats circular logic too by the way
spies5Luke (10:19:48 PM): "i am not a spy because you have to trust me"
spies5Luke (10:19:57 PM): and if you are a spy, you do have reason to lie to me
spies5Desmond (10:20:52 PM): Damn How can I prove to you I am not a spy?
spies5Desmond (10:21:02 PM): I don't understand what you are saying!
spies5Luke (10:21:13 PM): well, here are a couple of things that make you a spy
spies5Luke (10:21:34 PM): one, you never post anything worthwhile in the burg. Its all silly stuff. Nothing about the game really.
spies5Luke (10:22:10 PM): two, you voted caela, yet no one even knew why. It was unfounded. I would've found it more likely for you to not vote at all.
spies5Luke (10:22:19 PM): you did'
spies5Luke (10:22:25 PM): you didn't post it anywhere
spies5Desmond (10:22:55 PM): Lets just say the reason I voted Caela is because I have someone in this game that I can trust
spies5Luke (10:23:24 PM): your spies?
spies5Desmond (10:23:45 PM): Not my spies, there are other :friend: roles in this game
spies5Desmond (10:23:54 PM): Why do you always have to go straight for spies?
spies5Luke (10:24:04 PM): ...
spies5Luke (10:24:06 PM): wait.
spies5Luke (10:24:07 PM): what?
spies5Desmond (10:24:11 PM): Nevermind
spies5Desmond (10:24:19 PM): I looked over what everyone said
spies5Desmond (10:24:24 PM): And I made a choice
spies5Desmond (10:24:39 PM): Just because I didnt say anything doesnt mean I didnt read anything

[Desmond]

spies5Luke (10:24:47 PM): no you didn't. You just admitted you didn't.
spies5Luke (10:24:55 PM): about reading things
spies5Luke (10:25:04 PM): you said you just talked to someone you can trust
spies5Desmond (10:25:40 PM): Maybe I was lying about having a partner
spies5Luke (10:25:49 PM): why would you lie?
spies5Desmond (10:26:14 PM): Because you are scaring me and confusing me and your attacking me while I have no clue
spies5Desmond (10:26:18 PM): and it really bothers me
spies5Luke (10:26:20 PM): you said you had no reason to lie to me. yet you just did.
spies5Desmond (10:26:26 PM): and I dont do well under pressure
spies5Luke (10:27:16 PM): if you can't handle me just asking a few questions, what would happen if I threw you out there in the chat and people interrogated you?
spies5Desmond (10:27:27 PM): I don't want that to happen
spies5Luke (10:27:27 PM): i won't do that
spies5Desmond (10:27:33 PM): Can we keep that from happening?
spies5Luke (10:27:36 PM): yes.
spies5Luke (10:27:45 PM): but you have to be honest with me here first
spies5Desmond (10:28:00 PM): Ok I will be honest with you as long as you are honest to me.
spies5Luke (10:28:26 PM): definitely
spies5Desmond (10:28:30 PM): Ok lets go one thing at a time slowly, please?
spies5Luke (10:28:36 PM): alright
spies5Luke (10:29:07 PM): first: You haven't posted content at all. You haven't said who you suspect and why. Why is that?
spies5Desmond (10:30:14 PM): Ok the truth about that: First off I will admit that I have not been fully committed, I have a life yes and there are other things I do on the internet and that is a lot of reading
spies5Desmond (10:30:43 PM): Secondly I have no clue what is going on because of not being fully committed I am trying to change that
spies5Luke (10:30:46 PM): ok
spies5Desmond (10:31:16 PM): Third this weekend I was at my dads and he doesnt have a computer or else I would have caught up a lot then. Over these next few days I will try to catch up
spies5Desmond (10:32:37 PM): And the last reason why is: I have always been more of a lurker in everything that I do. I dont really like to share my opinion cause I am afraid of being wrong and afraid of people yelling at me, I am a bit shy. Also my brain doesnt function that fast I am a fast learner but slow to with puzzles and things of this nature
spies5Desmond (10:32:59 PM): It is hard for me to blame someone when I don't really know what I am saying
spies5Luke (10:34:10 PM): well, could you try posting your suspicions in the futrue?
spies5Luke (10:34:15 PM): *future?
spies5Desmond (10:34:57 PM): I will try my best, with what I have I will post a % of how much and how well I suspect this person, based on how much I have read and what I know and have heard about them. I will try to get more of my thoughts out
spies5Luke (10:35:54 PM): so why did you vote caela yet didn't talk about her at all in the burg or with other people?
spies5Luke (10:36:00 PM): weren't you hesitant?
spies5Desmond (10:37:50 PM): Yes I was 100% not certain. But the thing about me Luke is I am great with handling what I have and making something out of it. I read what I could read and I knew I didnt have enough time or evidence to accuse anybody of anything. I went with what people were saying and what I had read. It sounded like the best option at the moment. If I could go back and do it over would I? Of course
spies5Luke (10:39:50 PM): so what are you going to do to fix that?
spies5Desmond (10:41:13 PM): I am going to take more time to listen to not only everyone else but myself, I look out for numero uno and no one else. I will start reading every thread and getting the sure details about everyone and every action. I will post my opinion more and fight for what I believe
spies5Luke (10:42:10 PM): that is good
spies5Luke (10:42:20 PM): who told you to say that?
spies5Desmond (10:42:52 PM): My heart told me to say that, Luke.
spies5Luke (10:43:34 PM): haha
spies5Luke (10:43:37 PM): ok.
spies5Desmond (10:44:00 PM): Anything else, I feel like we are having a good heart to heart here, better hurry before it fades,
spies5Luke (10:45:10 PM): I hope so
spies5Luke (10:45:18 PM): i'm going to be honest with you now
spies5Luke (10:45:34 PM): most of what you said seems really spy-ish to me
spies5Luke (10:45:48 PM): but for some reason I don't think I should do anything about it.
spies5Desmond (10:46:17 PM): But I said I was being honest, that all came from the heart, I spilled my heart to you and that is what you really think?

[Vince Ventura]

Mar 18, 2008 23:28:02 GMT -5 Vince Ventura said:

What This Could Say About Angus. 2.0

1) Angus is not responsible for selectively blocking the imprisonment. He does not have a role that gives him the option of protecting someone or preventing an imprisonment, and he does not have any sort of Gordyish protection.
[CONFIRMED]

2) The Spies are, in some way, NOT aware of each other.
[CONFIRMED]

3) The Spies somehow are unaligned(very unlikely in my book), and this episode was Angus's group's turn for imprisoning. The roleblocker, which is in another group, blocked Angus, and prevented someone from getting clipped last night.
[FALSE]

4) Angus is a Spy & is in the legion responsible for Imprisonments. The roleblock prevented the imprisonment from carrying through.
[Unconfirmed]

5) Angus could be a regular ol' Citizen who was roleblocked. The lack of Imprisonment could be the result of something entirely different.
[Unconfirmed]

Vital Information to Seek

1) What prevented the Episode Two Imprisonment?

2) Are ALL Spies in this game aware of the identity of the entire group of Spies? - No, they are not all aware of each other

[Vince Ventura]

Mar 19, 2008 23:37:23 GMT -5 Vince Ventura said:

...Perhaps it is equally as likely that the roleblocker will ultimately hit a Citizen with the roleblocking ability. Otherwise, multiple "no-kills" would be possible, as the roleblocker could hit a Spy repeatedly. In all four previous Spies games, there has been a Citizen who was (capable of being) directly responsible for blocking an Imprisonment :

1) Sage
2) Karl
3) Shane
4) Gordy

...We were told not to outguess Sam's trickery, for he may decide to change things, but I can't help but notice that one consistency. No-kills seem to be dreaded in Spies except for the one possible exception we have seen in the past four games.

There is one last thing that just fired its way across my neural circuits. With Sam's new revelation that all Spies have a say in the matter of who is Imprisoned, there is no "killing legion" of Spies - they are all responsible. Therefore, roleblocking any one Spy would result in a no-kill for that mechanic to work. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to outguess Sam on this one and conclude that he would not allow this to happen, and as a result, conclude that Angus being roleblocked does not make him a Spy who prevented the Imprisonment.

This does not mean that Angus is not a Spy, but rather that I have no conclusive evidence.

[Vince Ventura]

I'm posting this in case I die tonight(Imprisonment).

It would also be in your interest to keep in mind that I won the FoS challenge. I received a double vote. Six people pestered me prior to Exile regarding my vote. They are : Evie, Sophia, Shizuka, Guile, Brody, and Jillian.

[Sophia]

Holy hell! Angus wanted to blow the whole thing to 3 spies! And he even suggested only ME at first. That would have changed SO MANY THINGS if that had happened. That's incredible how close that was.

[Cy]

Damn, both of us were on the trusted list. That would have been so fucking funny if we had found out about that information that early on.

[Sophia]

Right. And I was mentioned TWICE for my spy theory :S

[Vince Ventura]

Sorry I posted those during Imprisonment/suggested something similar to Angus, Sam. I wasn't clear on that not being allowed. I won't do that next time.